The Importance of Documenting Events as They Occur
One year ago the world was witnessing the events that led to Russia's intervention in the Genocide being waged by Outlaw US Empire/NATO via Ukraine on the residents of the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics. On my Wall, there are a series of ten articles I published at that time but should have published several more to provide a better historical record. Ahh… hindsight's always 20/20.
Several blogs are reviewing those events but omit too many details to be considered accurate historical recaps. One of the events I linked to but never turned into a separate article was the very unusual televising of a meeting of Russia's Security Council held prior to Putin's historic speech recognizing the independence of the Donbass Republics. Clearly that was done with the intent that all Russians would be informed of the discussion and debate on what would become an existential decision about Russia and its people's future. As I noted, on my Wall you can find Putin's historic 21 February speech that reviews most of the history related to the issues at hand that led to Putin's recognizing the independence of those Republics. Combined, these two events show a degree of governmental transparency unprecedented in history, making Russia IMO the most democratic of the world's nations. Obama was supposedly a legal scholar; but when compared to Putin the lawyer, Obama is just a tin-pot shyster as are those of his crew that are responsible for today's conflicts and international crimes.
So forgive me my long introduction to my finally providing the transcript of the 21 February 2022 Russian Security Council Meeting:
Vladimir Putin: Dear colleagues, good afternoon!
We have gathered with you to discuss the current situation in the Donbas.
In a nutshell, let me remind you of what was going on there in the first place, how the situation developed, although you already know all this very well, and yet in order to have a general picture that would help us make appropriate decisions.
So, after the coup in Ukraine in 2014, a part of the population of this country did not accept this coup. Let me remind you that it was unconstitutional and bloody, because many innocent people died during these events. This is indeed an armed coup – no one really argues with this.
I repeat, some of the citizens of this country did not accept this coup. This also applied to those people who lived in Crimea, and it also applied to those who lived and still live in the Donbas.
People declared that they were forming two independent republics-the Donetsk People's Republic and the Luhansk People's Republic. From that moment, the confrontation between the Kiev authorities and people living in this territory began.
In this regard, I would like to draw your attention to the fact that Russia initially did everything possible to resolve all the contradictions that have arisen by peaceful means. Nevertheless, the Kiev authorities have twice conducted military punitive operations in these territories, and, apparently, we are witnessing an escalation of the situation for the third time.
All these years – I want to emphasize this-all these years, people who live in these territories were actually bullied. Constant shelling, blockade. As you know, people living in areas close to the so – called frontline were generally forced to move to basements-they live there themselves, along with their children.
In the course of the negotiation process, a peace settlement plan was developed, which is called the Minsk Package of Measures, because, as you remember, we met in Minsk. But the whole course of subsequent events shows that the current Kiev authorities are not going to fulfill it. Moreover, they have already publicly stated this many times, both at the highest state level, at the level of the Foreign Minister, and at the level of the Secretary of the Security Council. In general, it is clear for everyone: they are not really going to do anything about this Minsk Package of Measures.
Nevertheless, Russia has made and is still making efforts to resolve all the difficult moments and tragic moments of the development of events in a peaceful way, but today we have what we have.
Our goal, the purpose of our meeting today, is to listen to our colleagues and determine our further steps in this direction, taking into account the appeals of the leaders of the Donetsk People's Republic and the Luhansk People's Republic to Russia with a request for recognition of their sovereignty, and the resolution of the State Duma of the Russian Federation on the same topic – calling The Head of State should do so and recognize the independence and sovereignty of the Donetsk People's Republic and the Luhansk People's Republic.
At the same time, I would like to note that these are different issues, but they are nevertheless very closely related to global problems of ensuring security in the world in general and on the European continent in particular, because the use of Ukraine as an instrument of confrontation with our country, with Russia, is, of course, a serious, very big threat for us.
That is why in recent months, at the end of last year, we have stepped up our work with our main partners in Washington and in NATO, in order to finally agree on these security measures and ensure a calm, prosperous development of the country in peaceful conditions. For us, this is the number one task, it is a priority for our country: not confrontation, but ensuring security and conditions for development.
But, of course, we must understand the realities in which we live. And, as I have repeatedly said, if Russia faces such a threat as Ukraine's admission to the North Atlantic Alliance, to NATO, then the threats to our country will increase many times. Because there is Article 5 of the treaty on the creation of NATO, from which it is clear that all countries of the alliance must fight on the side of one of their members if it is subjected to some kind of aggression. But since no one recognizes the will of the Crimean and Sevastopol residents, and Ukraine insists that this is its territory, we have a real threat that they will begin to recapture this, as they believe, their territory by military means, and they say this in their documents, write, this is obvious, and then the entire North Atlantic Treaty Organization will be able to do this. the block must be included in these events.
We are told, and you know it, that some NATO countries are against Ukraine becoming a member of the alliance, but despite the fact that they are against it, they signed a memorandum in Bucharest in 2008 that opens the doors for Ukraine and Georgia to join NATO. To my question, why did you do this, there is no answer. Under pressure from the United States, that's the answer. But if they took one step under pressure from the United States, how can we guarantee that they won't take a second step under pressure? There are no such guarantees.
There are no such guarantees at all, because the United States easily refuses any agreements, any documents that it signs. But nevertheless, at least something should be put on paper and recorded as an international legal act. To date, we cannot agree on this either.
That is why I propose the following procedure for our work: first, I would like to give the floor to Sergey Viktorovich Lavrov, who is working in the field of trying to reach an agreement with Washington, Brussels, and NATO on security guarantees, and then I will ask Dmitry Kozak to make a report on his assessments of what is happening on the negotiation track on the implementation of the Minsk agreements Then I'll give the floor to each of you. But in the end, we must decide with you what we will do next and how we should act, based on the current situation and our assessment of its development.
Please, Sergey Viktorovich.
Sergey : Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich, Dear colleagues!
As I reported to the President a week ago, we have prepared an assessment of the security guarantee proposals that Russia put forward to the United States and NATO last December.
At the end of January, we received a reaction. The assessment of this reaction shows that our Western colleagues are not ready to accept our central proposals, primarily regarding the non-expansion of NATO to the east. This request was rejected, citing the alliance's so-called open door policy and the state's freedom to choose how to ensure its security. Neither the United States ' response nor the North Atlantic Alliance's response offers an alternative to this key provision.
The United States is trying in every possible way to circumvent the principle of indivisibility of security, [the key component in the OSCE treaties and UN Charter] which we have actively referred to. By extracting from it the only element that suits them-the freedom to choose alliances - they completely ignore everything else, including the key condition that no one-whether choosing alliances or not – should strengthen their own security at the expense of the security of others.
In this regard, at the end of January, I sent detailed letters to all our Western European colleagues – members of NATO, members of the European Union, as well as Switzerland – where I showed our legal analysis of the commitments that were adopted at the OSCE summit in 1999, in 2010, as well as in the framework of relations between Russia and NATO, including: The Founding Act of 1997 and the Rome Declaration, which was approved at the highest level at the NATO–Russia meeting in Pratica di Mare in 2002. [The letters called out the breaking of these treaties.]
Our second priority concerns the very period when relations with NATO were established, in 1997. Considering that the documents of 1997 declared that Russia and NATO are no longer adversaries, and the task was expressed to build a strategic partnership, among other things, we proposed to return on the eastern flank of NATO to the configuration of the alliance's forces as of 1997. This argument of ours was rejected, as well as the first one, and we were immediately called upon in the NATO responses to "stop the occupation of Crimea", "withdraw troops from the territory of Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine".
On Ukraine as a whole, these documents express support for the Minsk Package of Measures, but in absolutely such a "sterile" way, without any readiness to force Kiev, to get Kiev to comply with the provisions of this important document.
In response to our other demands, including the need to exclude the deployment of weapons systems that pose a threat to us near Russian borders, the Americans indicated their intention to start discussing the problem of medium-and shorter-range land-based missiles. This problem arose after the United States unilaterally withdrew from the relevant treaty with the Russian Federation and ignored your initiatives two years ago, Mr Putin, when you proposed at least declaring a mutual moratorium on the deployment of such systems with appropriate verification measures instead of this treaty.
Other ideas that the United States and NATO have passed on to us include working on some aspects of reducing military risks, increasing transparency and predictability. They are actually close to our proposals, which we have repeatedly put forward in recent years, both to the Americans and to NATO members. But these topics are taken out of the context of the package agreement on security guarantees.
In terms of bilateral steps with the United States, they also talk about regulating the flights of strategic bombers, finalizing measures to prevent incidents at sea and in the airspace above it, but also pay special attention to the transparency of surprise inspections, the resumption of contacts between the military, the creation of a civilian telephone hotline and discussing mechanisms for preventing dangerous military incidents.
In general, our general impression is that our colleagues are trying, so to speak, to sort out the Russian proposals, to single out some minor, though important for us, points that would help maintain dialogue and reduce risks, but would not affect the fundamental interests of the United States and its allies in matters of reckless expansion of NATO, and would not affect their freedoms in determining the configuration of forces in NATO and near-NATO space.
At the same time, which is especially important in the context of the topic that the President outlined today, the beginning of a dialogue on any issues is due to our preliminary steps to de-escalate the situation around Ukraine.
Summing up the assessment of these responses, we can state that there is progress. They are insignificant, but they are there. The consistency and integrity that we have shown in promoting our initiatives of December last year have certainly shaken up the United States and its allies, and forced them to take into consideration many of the previously rejected Russian proposals for easing military tensions and arms control.
In this context, as I reported to you, Mr President, we believe that the work should continue. We have responded in detail to the documents received from Washington and Brussels in the spirit I have outlined, but we have only so far responded to the United States – including primarily because we consider the NATO direction as auxiliary, based on the fact that the NATO members, of course, will determine their steps first of all, and perhaps even in the future. even exclusively depending on what position Washington takes.
By the way, at the recently concluded Munich Security Conference, every Westerner declared an absolute commitment to a unified position. The United States is developing a unified position, so Munich simply confirmed that it is necessary to talk with Washington. This is exactly what we are doing now, sending the response you have approved to the American document.
In this document, we emphasized the main thing that our proposals are not something like a "menu" from which you can choose, they are not an ultimatum, they are simply based on the absolutely obvious thing that the situation in the world can only be solved comprehensively at this stage. You, Mr Putin, have stressed that the Ukrainian crisis also largely depends on the development of relations between the Russian Federation and the West, which is led by the United States, so in our response we stressed the integrity of the original Russian initiative.
We are also ready to discuss the issues that the Americans have mentioned, including taking into account our previous ideas. But we will do this solely by seeking answers to the main questions that concern us: stopping the expansion of NATO to the east and considering the configuration of the NATO presence on the European continent, primarily in Central and Eastern Europe, taking into account what was agreed within the framework of Russia–NATO.
Of course, our appeal-not a call, but, in general, a demand by and large-to explain why the assurances signed at the highest level that no one will strengthen their security at the expense of the security of others are now not just ignored, but our colleagues from the relevant countries even refuse to explain that what did they mean when their leaders signed the relevant documents, and why now, no matter what they meant, they are not going to fulfill their obligations.
On your instructions, Mr President, we have sent these documents to Washington. Then, a couple of days later, Anthony Blinken, the Secretary of State, called me and said that he had read our document and was ready to meet to discuss it, outline the American reaction and ask some, possibly, additional questions. With your consent, such a meeting is scheduled for this week, on February 24, in Geneva. We will be guided by the positions that you have approved, that you defend in contacts with your colleagues, and that, of course, we will actively promote at the level of the Foreign Ministry.
Vladimir Putin: I am just talking to my colleagues on this issue, and the American colleague assured that they are not going to accept Ukraine tomorrow, moreover, some kind of moratorium is possible. But they believe that Ukraine is not ready today, so my answer was simple: "We believe that this is not a concession to us, it is just the implementation of your plans. You think that it is necessary to wait and prepare Ukraine for joining NATO. A moratorium, but not a moratorium for us, you are doing it for yourself. What is the movement in our direction, in our direction? We don't see this happening yet."
Yesterday, we spoke twice with the French President - already at night, today, we can say that we talked until two o'clock in the morning. He assures that there are some changes in the American position. But unfortunately, he could not answer the question of what they are.
I think that first we need to understand what these changes are, if any, because your colleague, on the contrary, publicly stated almost yesterday that they have not made any progress on fundamental issues related to enlargement, with the possible admission of other countries to NATO, including Ukraine. I take it that way?
Sergey Lavrov: Yes, Vladimir Vladimirovich, despite the numerous publications in the media, and in the Western media, of the texts of secret documents that were discussed in the early 1990s, in 1990-1991, between Western colleagues-both with us and among themselves; despite the fact that it clearly implies that even the West does not have them. However, the same Mr. Stoltenberg, who now holds the post of Secretary General of the North Atlantic Alliance, simply rejects the obvious facts declassified from the British archive and published in the magazine "Spiegel".
Despite all this, they are dead set on the inadmissibility of any weakening of the open door policy, although you have repeatedly publicly explained that such a policy does not exist, but there is an opportunity provided for in the Washington Treaty, with the consent of all NATO members, to offer a particular country to join the alliance under two conditions: if it meets the requirements of membership criteria and, second and most importantly, if it adds security to the North Atlantic Alliance. We know that the second and most important criterion has long been ignored by NATO.
But as for what new ideas the Americans and their allies can convey to us, we proceed from the fact that, as you said to President Macron, we first need to understand what the Americans mean. Since our French colleagues give us such information that they have an understanding of what Washington can talk to us about, today I am scheduled, as you agreed with President Macron yesterday, to have a telephone conversation with the French Foreign Minister. When agreeing on the time of the conversation, I asked the French Foreign Ministry to ensure that in this conversation it at least slightly clarified what exactly the Americans, as they hinted to the French, were ready to discuss with us.
Vladimir Putin: I see, thank you.
Please sit down. thank you.
Dmitry Nikolaevich Kozak – I asked him to-will now give an overview of what was happening on the Minsk settlement track, as we will call it. And then I would ask other members of the Security Council to speak out, starting with the real situation that is developing now in the people's republics of Donbass.
Please, Dmitry Nikolaevich.
Dmitry : Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich, Dear colleagues!
I will not bore you with the details of the difficult, insanely complex negotiations on the implementation of the Minsk agreements, but I will say only one thing: today it became absolutely clear that neither Ukraine nor its Western allies need the Donbass on any terms. Everything is being done to freeze this conflict, to impose political responsibility on the Russian Federation – they have already imposed it in the public consciousness, both in the Ukrainian public opinion and in the Western one, that Russia is a party to the conflict, this is an exclusively Russian-Ukrainian international conflict-and to impose economic responsibility on Russia for the maintenance of the Donbass.
And you know, many people know what astronomical sums we have to spend on humanitarian support for these territories. I would also like to say that what is happening in these territories ‒ there are literally fresh statistics today – we also may not always act consistently, because thanks to those measures, that government program in the Donbas, we had a sharp surge in economic activity, the number of jobs, and a sharp drop in unemployment on the eve of the conflict. Today, there is a shortage of labor: today, the number of vacancies exceeds the number of unemployed people by 2.5 times. This is also a fact – encouraging people to move, our issuance of passports contradicts the economic goals that we pursue. But it is, "marginal notes".
If we talk about Ukraine, it is quite obvious that neither Ukraine nor the West needs the Donbass, the conflict settlement is not necessary, the conflict should be frozen. Any hypothetical question about how they look at returning the Donbass to Ukraine under any conditions, under the control of the government of Ukraine, causes them a stupor, an absolute stupor. They don't know how to respond to it, just keep silent and lower their eyes.
As for the Donbas, it is probably not even necessary to explain the political and economic reasons that led to it.…
Vladimir Putin: No, no, you can tell us how the negotiation process under the Minsk agreements is progressing, and what state it is in at the moment.
Dmitry Kozak: It is at zero in 2015.
I would like to remind you that in accordance with the Minsk Package of Measures, the dialogue on the future regime and the status of Donbass in post-conflict Ukraine was supposed to begin the day after the withdrawal of heavy weapons was completed. The withdrawal of heavy weapons was officially completed on March 8, 2015. The dialogue was supposed to start on March 9, and by the end of 2015, the amendments to the Constitution agreed with the Donbass, developed within the framework of this dialogue, and permanent legislation on special status were to enter into force. Then holding local elections in accordance with this status and ending the conflict with the transfer of control over the Russian-Ukrainian border to Ukrainian control.
This is what it should have been. This dialog has not been started. Ukraine keeps a deep secret about how it sees the status of Donbass. Obviously, it follows from the negotiations that she sees them as ordinary municipal districts of Ukraine with ordinary rights and powers without any special status.
They have already convinced Ukrainian public opinion that the Minsk agreements in this part are unacceptable. If such a precedent is created that there is a certain territory that has a special status, special powers, the right to determine the language, plus its own police and influence on the law enforcement system of Ukraine, then this precedent will be extended to other regions of Ukraine. There is such a request, especially in the western parts of Ukraine, for the federalization or autonomy of certain territories of Ukraine. They have convinced the whole of Ukraine of this, and they will not get away with it.
At the Minsk talks and other international formats, whispers in the negotiating hall declare their commitment to the Minsk agreements, but in public opinion they go out the door of the negotiating cabinet and publicly declare there that the Minsk agreements are unacceptable, that they are a "noose around the neck" and hinder the settlement of the conflict in the Donbass.
Vladimir Putin: As I have already said, I had another conversation with my French colleague yesterday. He claims that the current leadership of Ukraine is ready to implement the Minsk agreements and, moreover, introduces some constructive, new, fresh ideas for their implementation, including the holding of elections according to the well-known formula of the current President of Germany, Mr. Steinmeier.
Dmitry Kozak: I would like to say once again that in eight years they have already learned – they have often found themselves in a stupid, absolutely comical situation, and they are obviously lying. And these Minsk agreements, all the documents that are presented today in the contact group, in the "Normandy format – - one thing is written, "black" is written, they say: no, this is" white " written. I have repeatedly said: maybe there is something written down with milk – let's warm it up with an iron.
The most recent example was on September 17 last year. They say: Russia is a party to the conflict. "All right, let's write down that Russia is a party to the conflict. Write down the obligations that Russia must fulfill under the Minsk Agreement as a party to the conflict." – We don't know." I'm asking you: "You consider Russia an aggressor state. Can you formulate it? Help the Germans and the French." – We prefer the Germans and the French to do it." In the end, the French and Germans say :" Maybe Russia will come up with its own obligations under the Minsk agreements? We don't know." The question is the following, for illustration, I say: "Okay. We will make your fate easier. What does the Donbass not fulfill or refuse to fulfill under the Minsk agreements?" Because in the Donbass, they really took an offensive position, they have a huge number of proposals on the implementation of the Minsk agreements on the negotiating table. "We don't know what the Donbass is not doing. We can't formulate it. You can figure it out yourself."
Vladimir Putin: So we don't know what? We don't know what the Donbass is not doing exactly within the framework of the Minsk agreements?
Dmitry Kozak: Yes, of course. They have no position on any issue. They do not know what obligations Russia should bear, what obligations they should fulfill or refuse to fulfill in the Donbas.
Vladimir Putin: As for the points, please explain to us again, points 9, 11, 12: it says that decisions should be made in a dialogue with the public.…
D. Kozak: In consultations and discussions.
Vladimir Putin: ... With consultations and dialogue with these republics. What about this issue?
Dmitry Kozak: They believe that, contrary to what is written – everyone already knows, probably they were even forced to bring the Cambridge English Dictionary to Berlin for the last time – this is not a requirement for direct dialogue. Discussions and consultations do not mean a direct dialogue between Donbass and Kiev on political settlement issues.
Vladimir Putin: So what is written "in dialogue and by agreement", they believe that this does not mean a direct dialogue?
Dmitry Kozak: Yes.
Macron told you yesterday that it is necessary that this dialogue should be exclusively within the framework of the TCG and under the supervision of the OSCE. This is also a far-fetched problem, because this dialogue takes place exclusively within the framework of the Trilateral Contact Group, which is moderated by the OSCE. This is a far-fetched problem, there is no such problem.
All proposals of Donbass are submitted to the TCG through the OSCE, and everyone under the OSCE chairmanship is trying to discuss them. But the representatives of Ukraine simply turn their heads away and do not hear when the representatives of Donbass say something. When they are asked the question "answer", they say: "If Russia asks something, we will answer." When Russia asks: "When will there be amendments to the Constitution – this was about two years ago in Berlin - when will the Ukrainians amend the Constitution in accordance with the Minsk agreements?" - the next day such hysteria began in Ukraine that Russia interferes in the internal affairs of Ukraine, makes ultimatum demands for amendments to the Constitution Ukraine. "This is a sovereign right of Ukraine, and no one has the right to interfere in it."
Vladimir Putin: That is, we understand you correctly, the Kiev authorities do not want to talk directly with the republics? They say that they intend to do this in a dialogue with Russia, and as soon as Russia offers steps towards a settlement within the framework of the Minsk agreements, hysteria begins about the fact that Russia interferes in the internal affairs of Ukraine?
Dmitry Kozak: Yes, it is obvious. Absolutely so. This is what they are trying to do, so that we start responding, start offering something on political terms, and then they will start accusing us of interfering.
Vladimir Putin: Yes. And what about the fact that the Minsk Agreements should be understood in such a way that it is not the unrecognized republics that should introduce initiatives, but, on the contrary, the current Kiev official authorities should make some proposals for the implementation of the Minsk Package of Measures?
Dmitry Kozak: Another recent suggestion that was made in Berlin on February 10, from the field of legal cretinism. Since we are talking about the legislation of Ukraine, initiatives to amend the legislation of Ukraine should come exclusively from Ukraine. Well, initiatives are coming. And will the proposals, amendments to these initiatives, if they are delusional, like what you discussed with Macron yesterday, the delusional proposals of Ukraine, if the Donbass offers alternative proposals, be considered? "We don't know," they lower their eyes. Obviously, all the latter tactics – they show ingenuity. It's stupid, clumsy, funny, but they show it all the time, inventing new schemes on the go.
It all boils down to the fact that no one can discuss Ukrainian proposals to amend their Constitution and legislation, because this is a sovereign right of Ukraine: if Russia, then this is interference in internal affairs; if the Donbass, then these are people with passports, separatists, who also have no right. This position was taken by Ukraine and unexpectedly supported by France yesterday.
Vladimir Putin: And the key provision of the Minsk agreements that all these changes, including changes to the Constitution, should be coordinated with the LPR and DPR, is ignored, do I understand you correctly?
Dmitry Kozak: They are ignored today, some schemes are being invented, schemes from the field of, I repeat, legal cretinism, that " let's throw something in the Trilateral Contact Group; we don't talk to anyone, we don't hear the Donbass; if Russia offers something, we will see how react to it." Most likely, they will react, as we have already said. And then the OSCE should tell us that this was allegedly agreed within the framework of the" black box " in the form of a Trilateral Contact Group. This is a far-fetched procedure.
Vladimir Putin:Good. Then I still have, one might say, a final question in this part. Tell me and my colleagues your opinion: will the Kiev authorities implement the Minsk agreements or not?
Dmitry Kozak: In the normal course of events, they won't, and they never will. I repeat once again: it is obvious that they do not want to return the Donbass to Ukraine either under "Minsk" or without "Minsk".
Vladimir Putin:Good.
Dmitry Kozak: It is profitable…
Vladimir Putin: All right, thank you.
Dmitry Kozak: Mr President, here or later? I just wanted to answer the question of whether or not to annex the Donbass, what to do with it next, how to use it in negotiations with the West, because this is a very serious problem.
Vladimir Putin: Let us limit ourselves to your speech for now…
Dmitry Kozak: Come on. And then, I think, we'll talk separately.
Vladimir Putin: Dmitry Nikolaevich, we will limit ourselves to your presentation on the progress of the negotiation process under the Minsk agreements and your assessment of the prospects. We understand that, in your opinion, there are no prospects for the development of this negotiation process within the framework of the Minsk agreements.
Thanks.
(To A. Bortnikov.) Now I would like to ask the director of the Federal Security Service – Alexander Vasilyevich, you-to report on the current situation at the border, including how the border guards record the number of people who have crossed over to our side, refugees, and the situation at the border.
A. : Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich,
We see how the situation on the territory of two republics – the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics-is deteriorating, that the number of attacks there has increased, first of all, which poses a threat to the lives of the civilian population. Given this circumstance, the movement of refugees towards the Russian border has begun, and today, at nine o'clock in the morning, 68.5 thousand civilians have left the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics for the territory of the Russian Federation – border guards record this figure.
We are in direct contact with representatives of the regional authorities that work with refugees – this is the first step.
Second. We see that as a result of the intensification of shelling by the Ukrainian security forces on the territory of the Donetsk and Luhansk republics, there are cases of shells hitting the territory of the Russian Federation, primarily in the Rostov region. Taking this circumstance into account, we are carrying out the necessary operational and investigative actions together with the Investigative Committee of Russia.
Two sabotage groups of the Ukrainian military entered the border with the Russian Federation in the Luhansk region and from the territory of Mariupol. As a result of the battle of our border guards with the support of the Russian Ministry of Defense, these two sabotage groups were destroyed. One of the Ukrainian servicemen was captured. The necessary further work is being carried out.
In principle, the situation on the border is stable on our part, we are monitoring it and have strengthened the military component, including through the Border Service, working together with law enforcement agencies and the Ministry of Defense.
Vladimir Putin: Thank you.
Sergey Kuzhugetovich, I know that the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation is monitoring the situation in the conflict zone. Please give your ratings.
Sergei Shoigu : Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich, Dear colleagues!
If we talk about the assessment of what is happening today: during February 19-20, there were more than 107 attacks, more than 70 of them were heavy weapons, 122-mm guns, mortars.
As a result of the actions of both sabotage groups and artillery, there is virtually no water in the city of Donetsk, in any case, there is no water in 90 percent of the city.
As for Luhansk, two-thirds of the city lacks gas; in fact, all the people who lived in the contact zone, which was forced to evacuate. At the same time, a small part of the people who are still forced to work there and stay put, because there are continuous-cycle enterprises, unfortunately suffer. Just today, a miner was killed at a bus stop as a result of an artillery shell hit.
Over the past 24 hours, or rather, during the night in total, if we talk about all directions, only during the night-more than 40 attacks. All this is mainly, in our opinion, as we see and as experts report, for pre-planned targets, that is, this is not spontaneous fire, this is targeted fire, and they understand where they are hitting.
In this regard, I would like to briefly report, Mr Putin, on what is currently concentrated and concentrated on the borders of the Luhansk and Donetsk regions from Ukraine: a total of 59,300 military personnel who are concentrated near the borders of the Luhansk and Donetsk regions.
As a result of your negotiations and long and prolonged negotiations on the implementation of security measures, troops and heavy equipment, especially heavy equipment, had to be withdrawn from the contact line to the range of the very shot, so that it would not reach populated areas. Today, on the contrary, we are seeing concentration, the return of this technique to its previous positions.
What is there today? 59.3 thousand military personnel. Armament: Tochka-U launchers, 345 tanks, 2,160 armored combat vehicles, 820 artillery and mortar guns, 160 multiple launch rocket systems, including Smerch installations.
In addition, I cannot but point out that this list does not include the very national battalions, nationalist battalions, which are much talked about and much written about, and which, according to our completely objective data, are poorly managed by the country's leadership and local command. Naturally, based on this, they act as they see fit, in their own opinion. Hence the appearance of these very sabotage groups that make their way in different places, hence the commission of various kinds of terrorist attacks, such as car bombings, power transmission lines, substations, gas pipelines and other things.
Apart from the events in the Luhansk and Donetsk regions, I would like to draw the attention of the members of the Security Council to the statement of Mr. Zelensky, that they expect and would like to regain the status of a nuclear country. I won't say "powers", but countries.
This is extremely dangerous, dangerous for several reasons. The first is that during the long years of Soviet power and being part of the Soviet Union, opportunities were created there to create such weapons – not only weapons, but also their carriers. By the way, if we mention that tactical weapons, nuclear weapons are located on the territory of Germany, then they may well appear here and may well appear on the carriers that already exist today. I mentioned " Dot-Y – - quite calmly put.
In other words, there are equipment, technologies, and specialists who can and do have capabilities that, in our opinion, are much greater than those of Iran and North Korea, which are discussed at all levels and are engaged in agreements to ensure that these countries are denuclearized.
To this are added the very nationalist units, battalions that are [stationed] throughout Ukraine. I think it's no secret that they largely control the situation that occurs in certain places, in certain cities and regions of Ukraine. I mean everything related to extremely radical nationalist views, extremely radical appeals in Donetsk and Luhansk, and in Crimea, and, of course, in our country.
Overall, the situation is extremely tense. Since February 14, we have seen a more active phase, or efforts to bring the topmost of all levels of combat readiness into effect. This suggests that either big, serious provocations are being prepared, or at least a military solution to the issue of Donbass is being prepared. This includes changing the locations of heavy equipment and artillery, changing the radio frequencies of negotiations. In addition, of course, everything that is connected or primarily connected with activity on the front line, I mean shelling. This has not happened for a long time, and we are actually almost close to the indicators of 2014-2015.
Thank you, Vladimir Vladimirovich.
Vladimir Putin: Thank you.
Dear colleagues!
As for the negotiation process related to the settlement of the conflict in the Donbas, I think we all understand the situation there. To date, it has also been described in sufficient detail by the Director of the Federal Security Service and the Minister of Defense.
We need to answer a question that was raised long ago and recorded in the State Duma's address to the head of state – the question of recognition of the Donetsk People's Republic and the Luhansk People's Republic.
We see threats and blackmail from our Western colleagues, we understand what this step is related to, but we also understand the situation that has developed at the moment.
Dmitry Anatolyevich.
Dmitry : Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich, Colleagues!
Mr Putin and the speakers have just described the general situation that has developed in the sphere of ensuring the security of our country, and I am referring to the attempts of the North Atlantic Alliance and the United States of America to completely redraw the world map in their favor, to advance to our borders and practically put us in a hopeless situation. These are, in fact, the "red lines" that the President of the country spoke about, repeatedly speaking at various forums and during various meetings.
If we talk about the situation that has developed around the Donetsk People's Republic and the Luhansk People's Republic, then it is quite obvious that – in any case, in my opinion, which is confirmed by the speeches of colleagues – these territories are basically not needed by Ukraine. In any case, this is a bargaining chip in trade for the status of Ukraine. Residents of these territories have not received any support and assistance from the Ukrainian authorities for many years, on the contrary, they are subjected to mass repressions, which consist in shelling, depriving them of basic benefits, and violating basic human rights.
Based on the totality of what is happening, we can conclude that the set of measures that are set out in the Minsk agreements will not be implemented. Moreover, for obvious reasons, even if there is pressure from foreign countries such as France and Germany, in all likelihood, the current regime in Ukraine, namely the current President, does not need this kind of execution, since it will prevent his re-election to the post of President, and he wants it more than anything else in the world.
Therefore, it is not in his interests to follow the agreements that have been reached, as you, Mr Putin, have just said, when both he and his National Security and Defense Secretary bluntly say publicly that these agreements are harmful, and then continue to play tricks on our Western colleagues during their personal meetings. during meetings or telephone conversations, they receive ritual statements from him in favor of implementing these very Minsk agreements.
We are facing a difficult dilemma related to the recognition of these two territories, which are ready to seek such recognition, and which have applied to us with relevant applications, as well as our parliament has also adopted such a resolution.
I remember 2008 quite well, and I can speak from some experience, taking into account the fact that I had to make a difficult decision at that time to recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent subjects of international law, that is, to give them, from our point of view, at least, international legal personality. We know what happened next. Naturally, I won't talk about this now, because there are a huge number of difficulties and problems here. At the same time, it is quite obvious that this allowed, let's put it bluntly, to save the lives of hundreds of thousands of people who live on this territory, and to a certain extent it was a lesson for NATO, for a number of European countries, which consisted in the fact that it is impossible to do this with the Russian Federation.
Today, the situation is much more complicated, and in some ways, maybe even easier. I'll explain. It is more difficult, because the scale of the potential conflict is not comparable to the one we faced in 2008. This is absolutely accurate, taking into account the analysis that, for example, was just conducted by the Minister of Defense. On the other hand, in some ways it's easier for us, because we didn't know what the reaction would be. There were various conversations: my conversations, Vladimir Vladimirovich talked with President Bush, too. And now we know what will happen, we know all the problems, all the difficulties, all the proposals for sanctions that are repeatedly broadcast to us from all the irons, so to speak.
We understand that the pressure will be exorbitant, but we understand how to resist this pressure. In this sense, this bitter experience over 14 years, in general, as it seems to me, has gone to our advantage.
This experience has shown that it will be difficult – and here I will give my personal assessment-but after a while, with skilful management of the situation – and I think we have learned this under the leadership of the President-the tension that is now simply vibrating around our country will still subside one way or another. Not quickly, not at once, but human history is such that sooner or later people will get tired of this situation and ask us to return to discussions, to negotiations on all issues of ensuring strategic security.
Here, you know, as in Bulgakov's famous work: never ask – they will come and offer everything. This is roughly how events unfolded in 2008-2009. They came themselves and offered to restore relations in all directions. Because, let's face it, Russia means an order of magnitude more to the world community, to our friends in the United States of America and in the European Union, than Ukraine, and everyone understands this, including Ukrainians.
So, of course, we always need to avoid sharp corners, but still, the laws of the genre are such that after a while, most likely, the situation related to the recognition of the relevant territories will cool down. Previous experience shows us this.
I would like to mention something that has not yet been discussed today. An elementary thing, but extremely important. About 800 thousand citizens of the Russian Federation currently live on the territory of these two unrecognized entities. In this case, Mr Putin, I don't even mean the Russian world, which we protect, help and support in every possible way, but the citizens of the Russian Federation. Citizens who live in another country. These are our people. I emphasize that not only people who speak Russian, but also citizens of our country. It is obvious to everyone that, for example, when all sorts of problems arise around American citizens, when one is captured somewhere, the Americans conduct special operations. Therefore, it seems to me that we, as members of the Security Council, cannot ignore this fact.
Therefore, in my opinion, if the situation develops along the path I just mentioned, and there are no signs of improvement, then the only way out in this case will be to recognize the legal personality of the relevant territories, which is entirely within the competence of the President of the country. But according to the signs that we are currently seeing, this situation is not likely to improve.
You said, Mr Putin, that I think it is very important that our society and the citizens of our country also express the appropriate mood, since we all live in the same house, and all this is connected with large-scale processes and with the military component. But, as far as I know, the overwhelming majority of citizens of our country would support such a step.
Thanks.
Vladimir Putin: Thank you.
Dear Dmitry Anatolyevich, And I want to address everyone now. Each of you knows that I didn't discuss anything with any of you in advance, and I didn't ask for your opinion in advance. What is happening now is happening right now, as they say, from a clean slate, because I wanted to know your opinion without any preliminary preparation on the part of the party. I consider this extremely important and ask the Chairman of the State Duma to comment on it.
Vyacheslav Viktorovich.
Vladimir Volodin: Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich, Colleagues!
The State Duma has made a decision – Mr President, we have appealed to you. This decision was not spontaneous, it was thoroughly studied, weighed, moreover, we proposed different options, but the majority, 351 votes out of 450 deputies, voted in favor of immediately sending an appeal to the President with a request to recognize the Donetsk People's Republic and the Luhansk People's Republic. The deputies who supported the second option also considered the same, but previously suggested sending the draft resolution to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and government agencies.
We proceeded from the fact that the situation in the DPR and LPR was critical, and our decision was primarily dictated by humanitarian considerations, given that people are dying, this does not stop.
Deputies believe that Kiev deliberately delays and sabotages the Minsk agreements. This is unacceptable. And we, of course, when making the decision, understood that our citizens, citizens of our country, our compatriots live there. The number of applicants for citizenship of the Russian Federation is one million two hundred thousand. About 800 thousand people received citizenship, but there are many more people who want to get it. Therefore, we are talking primarily about protecting the citizens of our country and our compatriots.
We also believe that the situation has not changed for eight years. Moreover, even though representatives of other countries are involved in this issue, Kiev is sabotaging all its previous commitments.
Therefore, Mr Putin, we ask you to consider the State Duma's appeal and recognize the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics.
Vladimir Putin: Thank you.
Valentina Ivanovna.
V. : Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich, Dear colleagues!
Seven years before our eyes, a humanitarian catastrophe has been taking place in the center of Europe. All these years – a real genocide, blockade, non-payment of pensions and allowances, shelling. For seven years, Russia has consistently advocated at all levels a political and diplomatic solution to the internal Ukrainian conflict, in fact, an end to the civil war at all levels, including through the parliamentary line. No one heard us.
There was an imitation of the implementation of the Minsk agreements. Endless meetings of the Contact Group are meaningless and useless. And it became obvious that the Kiev puppet regime not only does not want to, but it cannot solve anything. After all, look, it cost Biden, to snap his finger – and on the same day the attorney General was removed. Similarly, if they wanted this conflict to end in Ukraine, if only they gave instructions to the Kiev leadership – they would immediately sit down at the negotiating table and implement the Minsk agreements.
Ukraine needs this conflict to somehow justify the deteriorating economic and social situation, blaming everything on the alleged war. The West needs this conflict as an anti-Russian project, where Ukraine is just like a bargaining chip-it doesn't think about its national interests, but how to please its owners. That is why the Minsk agreements are not being implemented.
What the residents of Luhansk and Donetsk wanted, let's remember. They were called separatists, terrorists. They said: give us economic autonomy, we are tired of feeding Kiev, and give us the right to speak our native Russian-the usual requirements, the usual European values that are so much talked about.
Instead, there are two attempts to seize territory by armed forces with a large number of victims, and an organized humanitarian catastrophe. Where is the OSCE? And where are the guarantors who signed the agreement before the coup?
The heads of state of Germany, France, and Russia meet and make decisions. None of them was even attempted. The " Steinmeier Formula – is a seemingly simple, clear document, a sequence of actions.
You see, for Ukraine it is a territory, but for Russia, for us, it is citizens, people: Russians, Russian-speakers, Ukrainians-it doesn't matter. And the most terrible thing that the West is doing is trying to push two Slavic fraternal peoples together, and the residents of Donetsk and Luhansk have become hostages of this anti-Russian project.
How much more can you persuade? How much more can I explain? We must make a decision in the end. We had enough patience and enough arguments to force Ukraine to implement the Minsk agreements, to follow a peaceful, diplomatic path. Obviously, this is not part of their plans, they do not want to do this and will not do it. Call a spade a spade.
And the fact that the residents of Luhansk and Donetsk rebelled against the bloody anti-state coup, when the first law that was submitted to the Rada was the law on the abolition of the Russian language, and when our partners say that, yes, we must implement the Minsk agreements, which became an international document adopted by the United Nations-instead of to force them to do this, they wave their finger at us all the time, threaten us with sanctions, instead of forcing peace, so to speak, in Ukraine. Instead, they are conducting military development of Ukraine, supplying it with all types of weapons, including offensive ones. Do they think that nationalists, Bandera members, people who can hardly be called anything else can come to power there tomorrow and use these weapons? Will this add to the stability of Europe? Is this the path to a peaceful and stable development of the situation in Europe?
It seems to me that we, in Russia, simply have a moral duty. You know, I can't watch this footage, and I think most people do. Poor women, old women who cry, children who sit in basements and go to school – and the entire world community looks at it with closed eyes. It is impossible to talk about any European values after that. This is anti-human, anti-moral. Once again, I want to say that we can't put up with this any longer, we need to make a decision. If the recognition of the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics solves this problem, and this is obvious, then we must take this step.
Threats of sanctions, of course, it is painful, of course, it is unpleasant, but, listen, we are called an aggressor, and we have never announced sanctions against Ukraine. We still supply both Belarus and us with electricity, gasoline used to fill tanks that go to the border with the Donetsk and Luhansk republics, we supply gas and much more. Therefore, in my opinion, the time has come, you can not postpone, you need to make a decision.
Also, Mr Putin, just a few words, maybe emotionally, sorry, but in 30 years of separate existence as two independent states, what has Russia done wrong to Ukraine? What has Russia done wrong?
We supplied almost free gas. We didn't interfere, unlike the United States, which said it spent five billion dollars on regime change. We didn't interfere. If the Americans wanted to illegally elect Yushchenko in the third round – they did. We did not influence the elections and did not interfere in the elections – let the Ukrainian people choose the president.
All these 30 years, the illegal transfer of Crimea and Sevastopol to Ukraine has never been on the agenda. Yes, we were sore, yes, we were sore. We understood that more than 200 years ago, Catherine the Great adopted Crimea and Sevastopol as part of the Russian Empire by her decree at their voluntary request. I would like to remind you that the Black Sea Navy has been stationed there for more than 200 years – more than some states have been for years. But we have never raised this topic.
They were forced to stand up for defense, because the Bandera echelons were moving. Shooting unarmed policemen on the Maidan, burning people in Odessa to intimidate them-it would seem like flowers. What they would have done in Crimea and Sevastopol is hard to imagine, which is why Russia supported the free choice of Sevastopol. So accept this fact! We acted strictly [in accordance] with the UN Charter, where the main point is the right of a nation to self-determination. There is a decision of the United Nations court of Justice on Kosovo and so on, all these arguments are known.
Yes, they wanted the flag of NATO to replace the flag of the Russian Black Sea Fleet there, in Sevastopol, but we have no moral right to allow this. And so this topic is generally closed, it must be recognized.
I believe it's time to make a decision. It is simply immoral to continue blabbering, winding up, pretending that it is being performed.
Vladimir Putin: Thank you.
Nikolai Platonovich.
N. Patrushev : Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich, Dear colleagues!
The issue that we are discussing today is extremely relevant. But I will allow myself to take a slightly broader look at this topic.
The United States of America has written in its doctrinal documents Russia, as well as China, as an enemy, and almost everywhere they are doing exactly this work and from the point of view that we are their enemy.
I would also like to emphasize that we say: we are negotiating with NATO, we are negotiating with the OSCE, we are negotiating with the European Union, with the leaders of European countries. Negotiations should be conducted, but negotiations should be conducted with the United States. Everyone else will do what the United States says-and NATO will do it, and the OSCE, and the European Union, and so on. Therefore, the main negotiator with whom to conduct this case is the United States.
Look, Lavrov says: they want to once again organize a meeting between US President Biden and Russian President Putin. They don't say what topics they want to discuss. Just a meeting to discuss, just to say that we are in a dialogue, and so on. And we probably don't need to just talk. We need to achieve specific goals. They hide their specific goal, and this is directly the collapse of the Russian Federation. Our task is to protect both the territorial integrity and sovereignty of our country.
What concerns the conflict in Ukraine and what is happening there, according to everyone's conviction, and everyone knows it, is not organized by the people of Ukraine. The people of Ukraine are against it. They are intimidated and forced to follow this path. It was organized by the United States-just like the conflict with Georgia in 2008, when decisions were made. Therefore, the only country to negotiate with is the United States.
As for the Donetsk People's Republic, the Luhansk People's Republic: the people have already suffered enough, it is simply impossible to torment them any more. It is perfectly true that the Duma has made such decisions. I understand that we must support the decision that the Duma recommends that you, as President, make. I think that if we do this, we will protect the people who live there, and we should take care of this, and give them the opportunity to work in peace. But, I repeat, what is happening there is one of the local conflicts that the United States has organized.
Therefore, I will make a suggestion that it would be appropriate to respond to the proposal of the American side, to Biden's proposal that you hold talks with him, during which you could say that "you did everything against the people of the Luhansk People's Republic, the Donetsk People's Republic, and we are obliged to support them. If you are able to stop all this bloodbath in the shortest possible time – two or three days-we will conduct a dialogue with you. Then let the people develop, and let them agree and implement not the" road map " of the Minsk agreements, but a plan so that each item has a short time to do it." But I am sure that you will be given a negative answer, they will not agree with you. And so the only solution is recognition.
Thanks.
Vladimir Putin: Thank you.
Mikhail Vladimirovich.
Mikhail : Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich, Dear members of the Security Council,
We have been preparing for many months for a possible reaction, respectively, to the recognition of the LPR and DPR. I mean, first of all, import substitution and analysis of all the risks that we may face if we make such decisions. They, these risks, are already quite well developed, and we understand the issues related to restricting the import of high technologies, among other things, and a large number of other issues. Also, relevant groups have been formed in ministries and departments under the leadership of the Ministry of Finance on how to respond in the event of such decisions, and what decisions should be taken jointly, including with the Central Bank.
It is obvious to us that as the situation will deteriorate – what you said today, Mr Putin, is obvious – it is also impossible for Russia to lose momentum. Today, we need to escalate this situation, go into it, because only in this way will we be able to catalyze the processes related to import substitution and fulfill the national development goals that you, Vladimir Vladimirovich, have set.
We support and will do everything necessary to ensure the economic development and well-being of our people.
Thanks.
Vladimir Putin: So you support the State Duma's appeal?
M. Mishustin: I just listened to what Nikolai Platonovich said. I think it is necessary, of course, to bring our position, if you want, to catalyze it, and, if there is no progress, to recognize the LPR and DPR.
Vladimir Putin: Thank you.
Sergey Yevgenyevich.
S. : Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich,
We have seen for a long time, and I periodically inform you, that the current leadership of Ukraine is not going to implement the Minsk agreements.
The President of Ukraine also declares in his own circle that he can say anything about the Minsk agreements in public, say that he adheres to the Minsk agreements, but in fact is not going to implement them. The same thing happens in conversations with Western leaders, if there is no press at these conversations, he directly says that " We simply cannot fulfill the Minsk agreements."
For the current Ukrainian government, the government itself is more expensive than peace, than restoring peace and eliminating this conflict between the Kiev regime and the Donbass.
Now, judging by the way the situation in Ukraine is developing, I can say that this notorious thesis about the plans of the Russian leadership to "invade" the territory of Ukraine was born within the walls of the US State Department and is promoted to such an extent that it simply resembles war propaganda. And this was done in order to try to provoke the Kiev regime to another attempt to solve the problem of Donbass by military means.
Of course, we simply cannot allow this to happen. As already mentioned, there are about four million people living there, people who want to speak and think in Russian, want to honor history, honor the heroes who defended this land for many, many years.
Recalling what Russia did seven or eight years ago, when it simply responded to the desire of the population of Crimea and Sevastopol to live as part of Russia, and this decisive opinion was expressed by the residents of Crimea and Sevastopol during the most democratic procedure – during a nationwide referendum, I believe that we are simply in the current situation. we must do this.
I would agree with Nikolai Platonovich's suggestion that our Western partners can be given one last chance, so to speak, in order to offer them to force Kiev to make peace and implement the Minsk agreements as soon as possible. Otherwise, we must make the decision that is being discussed today.
Vladimir Putin: What does "otherwise" mean? Do you suggest starting a negotiation process or recognizing the sovereignty of the republics? Speak directly.
S. Naryshkin: I will support the recognition proposal…
Vladimir Putin: Support or support? Speak directly, Sergey Yevgenyevich.
Sergey Naryshkin: I support the proposal…
Vladimir Putin: So say yes or no.
S. Naryshkin: I say so: I support the proposal for the entry of the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics into the Russian Federation.
Vladimir Putin: We don't talk about it, we don't discuss it. We are talking about recognizing their independence or not.
Sergey Naryshkin: Yes. I support the proposal to recognize independence.
Vladimir Putin:Good. Please sit down. Thanks.
Vladimir Alexandrovich.
V. : Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich, Dear colleagues!
In history, you can always find analogies to certain processes that we are currently observing.
The point of view of the current, past Kiev official authorities is that they were forced to sign the Minsk agreements in that difficult situation, because they were cornered, that the Minsk agreements are akin to an act of surrender. Then, "colleagues", let's make a historical analogy, let's recall May 1945: Germany signs the Act of Surrender and does not fulfill this act for seven years, referring to any situations that there were difficulties, there were no difficulties, that they got into some kind of cauldrons on the streets of Berlin and everything else. Here it is-an analog.
So [what can we talk about] today, when our foreign partners invite us to play a fair game at the negotiating table? You can play a fair game only when you have honest and normal partners in front of you, and when partners with marked cards are sitting in front of you and doing everything in their power to somehow justify the hypocritical, deceitful position of official Kiev, what can you talk about then? And who is calling us to this dialogue? We are being called upon by our foreign partners, who, waving a test tube of white powder, bombed Iraq, replaced the legitimate government, and drowned the people in blood. And then we are invited to some kind of dialogue.
It is absolutely necessary to recognize these republics and their legal personality. But I wanted to make an amendment: to recognize these republics and the peoples of these republics within the administrative borders in which they were located before the occupation by the armed forces of Ukraine-from Mariupol to those historical borders.
Thanks.
Vladimir Putin: Thank you very much.
As for the negotiation process, Kozak also reported: it is in a dead end, just a dead end, we have been negotiating for eight years – that's what we are talking about.
We have all authorized representatives [present]. I would ask one of you, say Igor Olegovich [Shchegolev], to speak out. Naturally, [to express] your own position, but we will proceed from the fact that our colleagues hold approximately the same point of view. If there is a need for one of the plenipotentiaries to additionally express their point of view, please.
I ask you to.
Igor : Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich, Dear members of the Security Council,
We all remember 2014 and with what pain all our people perceived what was happening in the Crimea, and what began to happen in the Donbass and Luhansk. We remember the public demand for recognition of these two republics back then. We understand what courage and patience it took for the country's political leadership to give the new Ukrainian authorities a chance to heal this wound on the body of Ukraine, on the body of the people who are, in fact, one people with us.
During this time, the second President is already completing the first presidential term, and the first President is already being charged with treason for signing the Minsk agreements. We hear the statements of the Ukrainian Nazis about what will happen to the people of these republics after the Ukrainian government returns there: they are directly threatened with destruction, lustrations and physical executions.
Today, a group is concentrated on the borders of Ukraine, which is comparable in its striking power to the group with which Guderian deployed his troops to the Donbass from Bryansk in August 1941. At the same time, Russia is accused of being too aggressive, perhaps because it is too aggressive in protecting the lives of our fellow citizens.
I believe that we should recognize Luhansk and Donbas.
Vladimir Putin: Thank you.
I appeal to all those present: are there any other points of view or any special opinion on the issue that has been raised? No? I know the position of the Foreign Ministry, the position of the Defense Ministry, the position of the FSB, but I want to ask you.
Sergey Viktorovich, please.
Sergey Lavrov: Mr President, all the arguments in favour of this decision have already been made. Wherever you look, all this is being done by the West and is being implemented with pleasure by the Ukrainian leadership, despite all the agreements and despite all the existing cases of resolving internal conflicts.
The only conflict where one side refuses to talk to the other, and this is fully supported by the West – is the conflict in Eastern Ukraine. Take Cyprus: the "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus", there is a negotiation process going on, the UN is mediating. Take even Mali, where the French are now having problems-the government is talking to the rebels. It's the same in Ethiopia. Belgrade – Pristina, there is a dialogue under the auspices of the European Union, and everyone is trying to help.
But I also see this as an aspect similar to the term "genocide" you mentioned at the press conference with Olaf Scholz, because the genocide is also connected with the history of the creation of Kosovo as an independent entity without any referendum. And the fact that they are now trying to support the openly neo-Nazi, Bandera regime in Kiev is also a manifestation of genocide. In both cases, if you will, there is an attack on the Slavs, on the Orthodox, and in the case of Ukraine specifically-on everything Russian, which contradicts, as we all know very well, the Constitution of Ukraine, but does not prevent the Kiev regimes from passing laws one by one that tighten the requirements for the ban on the use of Russian language. In fact, the Russian language is used not only in schools and institutes, but also in everyday life.
I very much hope that we will send a strong message to the Russian world. For eight years now, we cannot look on indifferently at how our compatriots and our citizens are being bullied. So I don't see any other way.
As for the proposal to give the West two or three days to come to its senses – this is a matter of taste, of course, but it will certainly not change its position, this is clear to everyone.
Thanks.
Vladimir Putin: Thank you.
Sergey Kuzhugetovich.
Sergei Shoigu: Mr President,
2022, for eight years people have learned to live in basements - from small to large. None of these items were completed during this time. The only one was fulfilled when the Ukrainian troops were separated and withdrawn, and then it was fulfilled in the expectation that Ukraine believes that the day will come when they will gather their strength, get opportunities and implement this issue by force.
The next page of this picture, or this book – is the pumping of weapons in Ukraine. It continues with unclear goals and tasks. They already have so many weapons there that they will be enough for many different kinds of large and small conflicts, which they arrange with enviable stubbornness on the territory of both the Luhansk and Donetsk republics.
But when four or five flights arrive every day, and there were days when there were eight flights of weapons, modern weapons, and when they say that they are defensive, it is difficult for me to imagine that the same Javelins are defensive weapons. And there are already more of them there, Mr Putin, than in some NATO member countries. And this means that no one is going to implement any Minsk agreements, and everyone is preparing to resolve this issue by force.
In this situation, I believe that we were left with no choice, so I definitely say "yes": yes, we must admit it.
Vladimir Putin: Thank you.
Alexander Bortnikov: Mr President, for several years now the Luhansk and Donetsk People's Republics and their citizens have been looking forward to and asking the Russian Federation to protect them, hoping to live, work, raise their children, and live in peace. And I am absolutely convinced that it is necessary to exercise their right and protect them.
I am convinced that the adoption of a decision on the recognition of these republics will contribute to this. We will definitely realize this hope.
Thanks.
Vladimir Putin: Viktor Vasilyevich.
Vladimir Zolotov: Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich, Dear colleagues!
The German Chancellor spoke in the spirit that the talk about the genocide of the population of Donbass causes laughter. You know, I would like to see what he would say if there were German citizens living in this territory and they were being shelled on a daily basis. What would he say and how would he laugh about it?
Mr. Macron said-you just talked about what he said, that the Ukrainian authorities are ready to implement the Minsk agreements. My colleagues are absolutely right now: they say no, moreover, they say Zelensky is already declaring his readiness to create nuclear arsenals. So where do we end up?
At the same time, we do not border with Ukraine, we do not have a border with Ukraine. This is the border of the Americans, because they are the masters in this country, and all these people are their vassals. And the fact that they are pumping them with weapons in such a way, that they are trying to create nuclear arsenals now – then it will come back to us in the future.
Of course, recognition of these republics is mandatory. And I want to say that we need to go further in order to protect our country.
I've said it all. Thanks.
Vladimir Putin:Well, thank you.
Dear colleagues, I have heard your opinion. The decision will be made today.
I want to thank you for this meeting. [All Emphasis Mine]