Lavrov Again: “ 'Talking about the Important' on Russia and the World”

Given the much reduced traffic to the transcripts I've posted of Lavrov's many interviews and events since the New Year, I'm assuming, hopefully incorrectly, that people have grown tired of reading what he has to say, which would be rather unsettling since he provides a very deep look into the soul of Russia and attitudes of Russians. The full title of the following transcript is “Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov's interview with the information and educational lesson 'Talking about the Important' on Russia and the World,” and is as important as it sounds. Russian media excerpted some of Lavrov's words because of their importance in relation to current events, which is one of the reasons why I go through the trouble to provide these translations for thay are important to know. The “educational lesson” can be seen by the nature of the questions Lavrov's asked, “How and how can a young citizen help in his country?”; “Why do you think public consent is important for our multi-ethnic country? And what is patriotism for you?”; “What common idea could unite all people on the planet?”; “What, in your opinion, is the peculiarity of Russia? And what is its main uniqueness?” The others that follow are of a similar nature. RT found Lavrov to have spoken some very important words: “US openly admits it blew up Nord Stream” is the headline for its report. And that ought to provide at least one reason to read Lavrov for he's always providing information that isn't always published.

Question: How and how can a young citizen help in his country?

Sergey Lavrov: First you need to get a profession. To do this, you need to study well. Banal words, but in fact in the modern world the amount of knowledge is very important. Depending on what a young man or girl wants to become in life, this amount of knowledge can be dosed.

There is a great need for working professions and respect for them. People in professional colleges master one or another specialty. Those with a humanities mindset are interested in learning as much as possible in the humanities. Those who want to develop the most modern technologies should master the natural sciences: physics, chemistry, mathematics, electronics. Now there are many subjects that are crucial for the development of countries in key sectors of the economy.

In any case, all those who want to find a particular profession are united by one thing - study. Never too late to learn. Studying is not enough. Especially now, when there is a rapid development of all areas of social life, science and production. Even when you get a job (whether in a bank or in the IT industry - anywhere), you must always keep in mind the turbulent, rapid "run" of time, constantly master the emerging new achievements and apply them to your work site.

All this acquires additional meaning, gives new strength, when you do all this not only for self-development, but also understand that this is important for your country, see how the results of your work help to make life better in the city, village, certain groups of the population. This, I assure you, gives additional strength and incentives in order to work and develop as a person.

Question: Why do you think public consent is important for our multi-ethnic country? And what is patriotism for you?

Sergey Lavrov: Public consent is important for any country that wants to develop normally. In Russia, over the past 20 years, much has been done for this.

After the Soviet Union broke up into several independent, independent states, already in the Russian Federation there were tendencies to further isolate the territories in the Urals, the Far East and the European part. This was the result of a chain reaction. When something starts to fall apart, it's important to prevent a complete and definitive breakup. A huge role was played by the Russian leadership after the election of President Vladimir Putin in 2000, which made it possible to stop these processes. And not through the imposition of common residence in one state on all republics and regions, but through finding generally acceptable, mutually beneficial foundations for the further development of the Russian Federation.

This is the key to our unity and our strength, including in the international arena, as well as reaching agreement on the development of the country in terms of economy, culture and state-building. At that time, an optimal balance was found between the functions of the federal center (central authorities) and the powers that, in accordance with the Constitution of the Russian Federation, were transferred to the level of its subjects - regions, territories, republics, autonomous districts.

Life is not a frozen process. It's changing. With each historical period, new trends emerge. They must be reflected in legislation, in the state structure that ensures the unity of the nation. This process is underway. Almost three years ago, amendments to the Constitution of Russia were adopted, fixing a new stage in the development of our society.

National accord is certainly sorely needed in my profession of diplomacy. When you promote foreign policy, some initiatives and you know that the overwhelming majority of citizens support them, you work with much greater enthusiasm and with much greater efficiency. The foreign policy of our country, which in accordance with the Constitution is determined by the President, constantly measures its actions with our public opinion.

To this end, the Russian Foreign Ministry has a number of mechanisms and tools for communicating with civil society. This is the Business Council, which represents about 30 heads of large state and some private companies and corporations. There is a Public Council. It represents about 50 non-governmental organizations that regularly work with us.

Every year I meet with the heads of these non-profit structures, and during the year my deputies (each in his own direction) and relevant departments meet with these NGOs and listen to their advice. For our part, we help them to "enter" the international arena. For this purpose, the A.M. Gorchakov Public Diplomacy Fund was established under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation by the decision of the President of the country. This is an effective structure that issues grants to those who are engaged in public diplomacy, so that the relevant organizations with their colleagues abroad hold events and gain their experience, which can be used in our activities.

Public consent is of great importance for foreign policy. I say this with all responsibility. I am grateful to my employees, diplomats, all those who ensure our work, and, of course, to our citizens for its high appreciation. This underlines broad support for the course chosen by President of Russia Vladimir Putin and promoted by us.

Those of you who decide to choose the humanitarian direction of adult life, if within its framework you are interested in international affairs, will not be bored.

If such an opportunity presents itself, our Ministry will try to help you find this profession and become effective in it.

Question: What common idea could unite all people on the planet?

Sergey Lavrov: Many positive associations come to mind. I think friendship. That would be perfect. Friendship is a phenomenon that knows no boundaries.

When I participated in the first World Festival of Youth and Students in Sochi after a long break in 2017, I felt the state experienced in my youth – a state of good enthusiasm and satisfaction that I want to share with everyone. Great atmosphere. The same as it was during the Olympic Games in Sochi. There was a fantastic atmosphere during the World Cup. No one thought about any "underhanded", hidden things. Everyone just came together to participate in a big celebration.

I understand that championships, festivals, Olympiads do not happen every day. And not every day is a holiday. But if the friendship is real, then it helps in far from holidays, but on weekdays, in difficult times. If we take as a criterion our entire planet, the entire globe, I would define friendship as a means of avoiding any problems, difficulties and, moreover, the slide of relations between certain countries to a violent phase, to wars.

Large, influential powers that control world processes have a special responsibility. Our country, both during the Soviet Union and after it became the modern Russian Federation, has always tried to be friends and look for friends on the foreign policy front. We did so in the era of the struggle against colonialism, when we developed close friendly ties with countries and peoples in Asia and Africa. And now this friendship is preserved. On trips to Africa (I have already been there twice in the last six months), I am convinced of how deeply and well not only the older generations, but also their children and grandchildren (they were brought up correctly) remember the friendship that made it possible for their countries to "throw off" the yoke of colonialism and become independent. Our friendship has helped these countries to create national economies, statehood and armed forces.

It is bad when one of those who can influence world processes decides not to help friendship relations, but to undermine its prospects and instill enmity.

Now everyone is thinking about what is happening around Ukraine. Decades ago, American political scientists and politicians, in particular, the former US national security adviser (in 1977-1981), Z. Brzezinski, directly declared the task of preventing friendship between Russia and Ukraine in any circumstances. He literally said the following: Russia with Ukraine is a great power, Russia without Ukraine is not a very noticeable regional player. Cynical, brazen, frank.

We see how against the development of friendship is the political goal set by the United States. It didn't go away. Americans have never been sincere. Even when, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, it seemed that relations between the United States and our country were acquiring new qualities. Since that time, they have been pursuing a policy of weakening, if not to allow, the possible weakening of friendly ties between the Russian Federation and other former Soviet Union republics.

Ukraine was made an enemy instead of encouraging the friendship that has always underpinned relations between the Ukrainian and Russian peoples since the 17th century, when the Pereyaslav Rada witnessed the reunification of our countries and peoples. The West was not satisfied with this.

Now there are statements by Western colleagues that the only power capable of leading the world is America. Like, they need to eliminate the threat to Russia, then take up the threat posed by China. A threat to what? They honestly say it – "a threat to our American dominance."

The opposite line, aimed at not being friends, but subjugating and suppressing, is the "trademark" of American politics. Even with allies in Europe, the U.S. has no friendship. It's "suppression" and submission. The European Union tried some time ago to say that it wants to be an independent player, to have sovereignty, sovereign strategic autonomy. They were told, "Don't." And no one talks about strategic autonomy anymore.

The United States is throwing the European Union to fully support Ukraine. The entire burden of this support (economic, financial) fell on the shoulders of the European Union. It's hard to talk about any kind of friendship. This is the relationship between the hegemon and the vassals. America is in a state where materially, financially more than others (maybe only it) benefits from what it has planned and is implementing as a unleashing through the Ukrainian regime of war against Russia.

I'm all for friendship. Not all countries and peoples of the world, at least the elites in individual countries, have a tradition of friendship. They have the opposite tradition – profiting from everything that happens. They are characterized by logic – "friendship is friendship, and money (not even apart) is mine."

I'm all for friendship. This is not a banal goal, but an important tool that needs to be cherished.

Question: What, in your opinion, is the peculiarity of Russia? And what is its main uniqueness?

Sergey Lavrov: I believe that any country is unique. Let us respect the love of every nation for their country and proceed from the fact that we should also be respected in our love for a huge, beautiful, such a multifaceted country as the Russian Federation.

Russia is the largest country in the world. It has several climatic zones - from glaciers to permafrost, from ocean expanses to subtropics. In our country, people live feeling like one family. This is very important.

I have already touched upon the topic of consent in society, answering the previous question. I will not repeat myself, I will just say that people who love their country and devote all their talents to improving the conditions not only of their lives, but also of all those living in the territory of the Russian Federation are of great importance for any state, especially for ours. Of particular importance is our history. It needs to be known and cherished.

The United States was formed as a country of immigrants. They did not treat the indigenous peoples very affectionately – the Indian tribes. I'm sure, you know how it all happened. They still live there on reservations. There is some external appearance that their rights are preserved.

There were Indians in Canada, too. Immigrants quickly pushed them to the background. There is still an ongoing investigation into cases in which hundreds of Indians were killed on Indian reservations. This happened at the end of the last century, and was discovered only now.

The U.S. was formed as a country of immigrants who were "grinding." They even have the expression "melting pot." Everyone was thrown at him. From there, everyone came out, as it seemed to them, the same.

We see that the United States is not populated by like-minded people. In many ways, due to the ideological struggle, the country is far from united. This can be observed in the results of the elections and the processes taking place in American politics. When forming, they wanted everyone to be the same – "all under one comb." It didn't work out to the end. But that was the concept.

Our country, starting with Kievan Rus, then during the time of the Muscovite principality, then the tsardom, the Russian Empire, constantly expanded its possessions.

After the revolution, the Soviet Union (this was a continuation of the statehood created by the Russian Empire) never threw into the common "melting pot" the joined or annexed peoples. Our country has always preserved their languages, traditions, culture, religion, their ethnic and historical identity. It is important to cherish this heritage.

Americans have "unity in diversity" written on the dollar. I believe that there is immeasurably more diversity in our country than in the United States. The unity of our diversity is much stronger against the backdrop of serious confrontational processes taking place in the United States between the Republican and Democratic parties. This does not benefit national harmony and the development of their state as a single society.

The diversity of cultures, languages, religions and traditions is one of the important dimensions of democracy. They try to explain democracy exclusively to us "in the Western way": every 4-5 years we need to vote so that Western democracy experts can see that everything, from their point of view, is correct.

But as soon as the conversation about democracy in the international arena begins, the Westerners immediately "go into the bushes." The UN Charter states that the world Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of states. Neither the United States nor its Western allies have any respect for him. They consider themselves above all else.

Let's take (it is easy to find on the Internet) the statements of Presidents Barack Obama, Donald Trump, Joe Biden and their staff. Every time their president speaks to a mass audience, the idea is necessarily heard that America is one and only, that it is an exceptional power and only it can keep the world in good shape, normal, that if it were not for America, there would be world chaos. The philosophy of a dictator, a monopolist. This is not the philosophy of a state that relies on cooperation, democracy, the search for a balance of interests, the formation of a stable world system that will be based on several foundations.

Diversity is the key to the unity of our country compared to American philosophy. The current US National Security Advisor John Sullivan in 2019, being then in another position, wrote in one of the articles that American exceptionalism should proceed from the fact that it should not allow an emphasis on the historical and ethnic identity of other peoples, and American exceptionalism should promote a common understanding of democracy throughout the world, for all peoples. A rather serious frank admission of what benefits America wants to bring to everyone else. And it wants to bring everyone to a state that will be understandable to the Americans themselves, and will shape other peoples in its own image and likeness, suppressing, as it was directly said, their historical and ethnic identity.

It is necessary to ensure agreement by democratic means, but not necessarily by the methods of the democracy that the West considers the only true one.

Question: Pyotr Stolypin is the author of the following words: "Give the state twenty years of peace, internal and external, and you will not recognize today's Russia." What do you think is internal and external peace for Russia?

Sergey Lavrov: The answer to your question is contained in further statements by Pavel Stolypin. Polemicizing with his opponents, he said: "You gentlemen need great upheavals, we need a great Russia." Twenty years were needed for there to be a great Russia. As soon as it was left alone, not drawn into various wars, Russia immediately showed rapid, positive economic results for ten to twenty years. This was the case before World War I.

As soon as the historical turns on the Eurasian continent made Russia and Germany allies, they succeeded and their influence increased dramatically. Many did not like the Russian-German rapprochement both on the eve of the First World War and between the First and Second World Wars. Western countries openly prepared Germany for war against the USSR by signing non-aggression pacts with it in 1938-1939. And when we were forced to sign such a pact in 1939, we were told that this was the cause of World War II.

The meanness of Western politicians is well known. Now the plan, implemented through the "incitement" of Ukraine against Russia and the conduct of the war of the entire West against Russia through Ukraine, to a large extent involves preventing a new rapprochement between Germany and Russia.

The U.S. has decided that we have cooperated too well with Germany over the past twenty or thirty years. Or rather, she works too well with us. That a powerful alliance based on our energy resources and German technology has emerged. He began to threaten the monopoly position of many American corporations. Therefore, it was necessary to somehow destroy it, and literally. In fact, US officials admit that the explosions that occurred on Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 are their work. Now they even talk about it with pleasure. There is a point here related to the fact that friendship between countries, national reconciliation between them, as happened between Russians and Germans, has become a "bone in the throat" of someone who does not want anyone to appear anywhere on this planet, who will compete with the main hegemon, which the United States has declared itself to be.

We are for justice. We are not going to invent anything new. After World War II, the victorious powers wrote the UN Charter. This document remains the most important foundation for building a new world. If we all have to respect the words written in the UN Charter about the need to ensure the sovereign equality of states. As in any country, all citizens should be equal, so on the planet all states should have equal rights and be equally respected.

Question: Who is a diplomat?

Sergey Lavrov: That's me. Here we have to return to the first question: what shapes the personality and how to educate oneself.

For a diplomat, first of all, knowledge, knowledge and once again knowledge are important. Erudition without any restrictions, in any spheres. Not only in history, not only knowledge of languages. Diplomacy is now such that the erudition of a diplomat should cover the spheres of modern technologies and cybersecurity, because all this is discussed at diplomatic forums.

Cybersecurity is the subject of many Russian initiatives that have received support and are being implemented at the UN. In particular, a Committee has been established, which includes all Members of the United Nations, to work out principles for ensuring international information security so that advances in information technology are not used for military purposes.

In parallel, work is under way on our initiative to prepare a draft convention against cybercrime. The work also includes all UN states within the framework of the Special Committee.

Climate change. Of course, this requires special knowledge. A diplomat cannot replace an environmental specialist, but he must have an understanding of what is at stake. It is the diplomats who are negotiating, designed to develop steps aimed at preventing the rise in the Earth's temperature by more than one and a half degrees. This issue was actively discussed at the 27th Conference of the Parties to the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (Egypt, November 6-20, 2022). There will be another session soon. Of course, delegations include narrow experts. But diplomats should see the generalizing picture as direct participants in these processes.

About disarmament issues. How can one engage in diplomacy to promote the issues of non-proliferation of weapons, limitation of the arms race, without thoroughly knowing the problems associated with modern weapons systems, including nuclear ones. Nuclear non-proliferation is one of our key priorities.

By and large, any sphere of human life cannot be separated from the activities of international organizations. The development of the world has become global, universal means of communication have appeared, the consequences of human activity have begun to have a comprehensive dimension, in particular, in the context of climate change and not only. Energy issues have a worldwide scope. Food security affects everyone. If it's bad somewhere, the refugees will run to you. Therefore, you must own all these issues to the extent that you are willing and obliged to participate in their solution.

So learn, learn, and learn.

Question: You are a successful diplomat, the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation. What would you really wish for yourself from the past – Seryozha Lavrov, a student of an ordinary school?

Sergey Lavrov: I have never thought about the fact that I want to go back in time and live my life anew. I'm happy with everything that has shaped me as a person. Of course, there were not only blissful periods of life. He studied well, but never denied himself the joy of communicating with friends. Since school, then at the institute, we were engaged in all sorts of mischievous initiatives, wrote "cabbages", put them on the evenings both at school and at the institute. After we graduated from the institute and went to work, we continued to meet and arrange "cabbages".

I will definitely note the sports. I love football, skiing. It shapes the person and the personality. Helps support himself as a functioning diplomat.

Chat with friends. I talked a lot today about friendship. I still meet with those with whom I studied in high school. MGIMO graduates from our course hold annual meetings. The last one was just before the New Year.

Nature. My favorite rafts are the Altai Territory, the Krasnoyarsk Territory, the turbulent rivers. I wouldn't change anything.

Everything that makes you better in the eyes of yourself, you need to cherish. Love every day we are given. Make this day as useful as possible for yourself, your friends and loved ones.

Question: In the 1980s, Samantha Smith and Katya Lycheva became ambassadors of peace, advocating the rapprochement of our countries. Do you think today's children can become peacemakers? Will adults hear us?

Sergey Lavrov: Modern children are already becoming peacemakers. Let's take a video with a little boy playing the role of a regulator and directing our equipment to the fronts of a special military operation.

I recently watched another video. My father, as I understand it, plays the guitar, and a guy about ten years old sings the famous, piercing song "Don't Fight the Russians."

Drawings that children send to the front. We see in the reports of war correspondents how important it is for soldiers, how warmly they react. Some children, teenagers, together with artists visit the locations of our fighters and arrange mini-concerts.

On Novy Arbat there was a touching exhibition of drawings "Children of Donbass Draw". This is an important manifestation of the very harmony and unity in society that we talked about today. Children brought up in these traditions, who understand that there are holy things in life, will grow up to be true patriots.

We talked about patriotism, but the idea was not developed. For me, patriotism is pride in my country. Probably, many people will have different dimensions of this feeling.

When the special military operation began, there were many voices (in the West – I won't even comment, and we had a lot of them) saying: "Why?" "now we will be deprived of the factors of life that provided comfort and confidence in the future"; "why did everyone do it".

Comfort meant Western goods, to which everyone was accustomed. IKEA, McDonald's were mentioned. They meant the opportunity to go abroad, to study there. And there many of our students were "asked" to leave. This is a manifestation of Russophobia, racism, by and large.

They began to say that for the sake of "some territories" they "started" a situation that violated the life and peace of many people and families. This logic also applies to some of our citizens. Almost all of them have now left and are trying to find that very lost comfort in new spaces.

In our society, I observe a completely different trend. By society I mean those who live here, work, solve problems, see problems (they are seen by the President and the Government and frankly talk about them), feel the involvement of our history.

I quoted you from the American figure John Sullivan, who said that American exceptionalism implies actions that do not allow us to focus on ethnic and historical identity. The exceptionalism of the United States implies the desire to make everyone without identity, "for themselves", convenient for them to be led in various conflicts initiated by Washington around the world, and in other situations, in the economy, etc.

A normal, well-mannered person who attended school and heard the right words of teachers cannot decide that for him the ethnic (Russian or any other) identity of the peoples of our country is secondary. He cannot realize that historically he is ready to be Ivan, who does not remember kinship. For me, these are related components: origin, family, ethnicity, language. Along with Russian, we support more than a hundred languages of our country, including the smallest nations.

For the unity of Russia, it is important that the Russian language unites everyone. That's just the way it is. This year, within the framework of the CIS, the Year of the Russian Language as a Language of Interethnic Communication is being held. In order for harmony to be natural, it is important what we do with regard to the languages of small peoples, their traditions and cultures. National cultural festivals are held in Yakutia, Dagestan, Ingushetia, and Chechnya. This is all part of Russian culture. It has never tried to "push" towards the culture of its peoples, who are united with the Russian state.

For me, there is no country without a sense of belonging to the ancestors and the continuation of the traditions of both our small Motherland and the huge Motherland – Russia. A sense of national pride is one of the reasons why we defend the Russian world. Therefore, as President of Russia Vladimir Putin explained, a special military operation is taking place.

In Ukraine, it was not only NATO that created threats by deploying weapons that were a problem for the Russian Federation. They encouraged the Kiev regime, which openly, legislatively, consistently destroyed all the rights of Ukrainian citizens who felt themselves part of Russian culture. They wanted to be citizens of Ukraine, but at the same time have the right to speak Russian language, read Russian-language newspapers, use Russian-language television and the media, and teach children in school in Russian language. All of this was forbidden.

The Commissioner for the Protection of the State Language of Ukraine proposed to ban interpersonal communication in Russian language. What does that mean? Two people in Ukraine – for example, a husband and wife, wherever they are (in their kitchen or in the park) – would not have the right to speak Russian language. If it's not Nazism, I don't know what to call it. The West is trying to justify all this.

V.A. Zelensky said to "fail" to the Russian Federation to all those who consider themselves Russians in Ukraine. They are trying to expel these Russian people from the lands where they have lived for centuries, including the lion's share of this time as part of our common country. If we had left them there and not stood up for their rights – not invented, but enshrined in dozens of international conventions to which Ukraine is a member – the "penny price" would have been Russia as the great power that it was, is and will be.

Q: 2023 has been declared the year of the mentor and educator. Did you have a mentor?

Sergey Lavrov: I had many mentors. In elementary school, she is our class teacher. Then I was a class teacher in high school (physics teacher), thanks to whom I wanted to enter MEPhI or MIPT. But fate decreed otherwise.

There were mentors in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Immediately after the institute, he worked in Moscow for two months and went to the USSR Embassy in Sri Lanka. There, my first big, real teacher was the Ambassador of the Soviet Union R.N. Nishanov. Prior to that, he was the second secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Uzbekistan. I learned a lot from being an experienced politician.

Then there were the managers for whom he worked, returning to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. I will single out E.M.Primakov. He was appointed minister when I was Russia's Permanent Representative to the United Nations. By that time, I had already gained experience. We have communicated with him before, in his previous positions. When he became a minister, we began to work very closely with him. It is a great school for any diplomat and politician. Yevgeny Primakov is more than a diplomat. He is a statesman: prime minister, head of the foreign intelligence service, academician, director of the institute. For all of us, he is the main teacher.

Take care of your teachers!